Cross Examination-Elaine Forsythe:
Miss Forsythe you are employed as a marketing consultant by Rotary UK Ltd, is that right?
And your main role is to liase with the host stores, arrange the installation of the counters and stock the counters and so on? And you make sure for each new installation that you are on-site for the first day or two to be a point of contact with store management and to ensure the smooth running of your business on site.
Miss Forsythe, on 15th November 2003 your company had opened the Rotary counter in one of the big department stores in Oxford Street, Harbage’s, is that right? And it was on the ground floor area of the shop, which has the jewellery, watches, perfume and leather goods counters? And you had worked there on Friday 14th and Saturday 15th November?And mainly because it was important to get the counter up and running smoothly in time for the Christmas and new year sales period, is that right? And the Christmas rush had just started?
Therefore, the shop was more crowded than usual? And you have to serve more customers than regular days?
Miss Forsythe the Rotary counter runs in a sort of oblong shape which surrounds the space where the sales staff work, is that right? And you keep watches on trays and various acrylic displays stands in the glass display cases, don’t you?
On 15th November at about 11.30, there were no other sales assistants behind the counter for serving customers apart from you, is that right?
And particularly that time, there were more customers than usual, weren’t they?
And you were serving customers as fast as you could, weren’t you?
And customers had to wait a few minutes before being served, is that right?
Miss Forsythe, at about 11.30am, a young man came to your counter and was looking for a watch, didn’t he?
He pointed out one of the Rotary ladies’ wristwatches, which was REP range, model 785,
Priced at $225, didn’t he?
And this is the first time you had seen the young man, hadn’t you?
And you didn’t take more than a minute to show him the watch, didn’t you?
Since you had to serve as many customers as you could because many customers were waiting for being served, haven’t they?
Miss Forsythe when the young man was trying to decide whether or not to buy it, you were serving another customer, is that right?
Then you turned round to ask whether the young man made a decision since you got the watch out for the other customer, is that right?
And when you turned round, the young man was not there and so the watch he had been looking at, is that right?
So, it is right to say that you have seen the young man less than a minute and therefore it is very difficult to have a clear view, isn’t it?
Miss you then telephoned the security manager’s office and told him what had happened, didn’t you?
And later when one of the security staff came over to you, you told him what had happened and described the man, is that right
And having telephone the security manager’s office, the security staff took long time to come to you, didn’t he?
Miss Forsythe the young man you have served, he was in his early twenties, about 5ft 10in tall and quite slim, wasn’t it?
And he was wearing a T-shirt and Jeans, is that right?
And he didn’t have jacket done, did he?
Therefore you could have clearly noticed the right colour of the T-shirt and anything specific on the front, is that right?
Miss Forsythe now I think you would agree with me that this description would fit not only Mr Maguire but also a lot of men of his age, wouldn’t it?
Mr Tyburn later brought Mr Maguire to you, didn’t he?
And before Mr Tyburn asked you anything he had to wait couple of minutes as you were busy with serving customers, is that right?
He then asked you ‘Is this him?’
And you had been looking not only at Mr Maguire but also to another customer on the other side of Mr Tyburn before you decided to say ‘yes, it looks like him’, is that right?
At least I think you would agree with me that you were really unsure of who to look at, is that right?
On 1st December 2003 you were asked to attend the Central London Police Station for an ID Parade, is that right?
Mr Maguire was at position number 1 amongst the men on the parade, wasn’t he?
And you simply recognised him as Mr Tyburn brought him to you before, is that right?
And it is right to say that it does not prove anything to establish that the young man you had served was Mr Maguire, is that right?
Paul Tyburn
Mr. Tyburn, you have been employed by Harbage’s department store for three weeks as a security operative, is that right?
And you work part time, don’t you?
On Saturday 15th November 2003 you were on duty in the shop.
And you were patrolling the ground floor area of the shop which has the jewellery, watches, perfume and leather goods counters, is that right?
And the Christmas rush had just started hadn’t it?
And the shop was more crowded than usual?
And you have to keep your eyes on more customers than regular days? Is that right?
And it was very difficult for you to keep your eyes on any specific individual continually, wasn’t it?
Mr Tyburn, at about 11.30am, you had observed a young man to enter into the shop, hadn’t you?
And he went for looking at the perfume counter and then at the various jewellery and watches counters, is that right?
He then turned to look at the new Rotary counter, didn’t he?
And there were many customers at that counter and the young man waited to be served, is that right?
And then you had to deal with another incident and afterwards you carried on with your patrol, didn’t you?
And this is the first time you had seen the young man?
And you were observing him from far away approximately 30 yards, weren’t you?
And you hardly have clear view of the young man as the shop was over crowded, haven’t you?
And your total observation would have constituted less than five minutes, is that right?
So, it is right to say that you had seen the young man both for very little time and from far away and therefore it was very difficult to have a clear view, wasn’t it?
Mr Tyburn, the young man you have observed, he was in his early twenties, about 5ft 10in tall and quite slim, wasn’t it?
And he was wearing a T-shirt and Jeans, is that right?
And he didn’t have jacket done, did he?
Therefore you could have clearly noticed the right colour of the T-shirt and anything specific on the front, is that right?
Mr Tyburn now I think you would agree with me that this description would fit not only Mr Maguire but also a lot of men of his age, wouldn’t it?
Mr Tyburn later you had received a message via your personal radio and then you went to the Rotary counter and spoke to a sales assistant Miss Forsythe, is that right?
She then told you what had happened and described the man, didn’t she?
And then you went out of the shop into Oxford Street and suddenly stopped Mr Maguire, didn’t you?
And you grabbed his arm to bring him to the shop, didn’t you?
You then took him to the Rotary counter to Miss Forsythe, didn’t you?
And the shop was more crowded than usual, wasn’t it?
And before you asked anything to Miss Forsythe you had to wait couple of minutes as she was busy with serving customers, is that right?
You then asked her ‘Is this him?’
And she had been looking not only at Mr Maguire but also to another customer on the other side of you before she decided to say ‘yes, it looks like him’, is that right?
At least I think you would agree with me that she was really unsure of who to look at, is that right?
Mr Tyburn you then asked him to accompany you to the shop offices.
You then have taken him to a small office and he had to wait there for ages until the police arrived, is that right?
And you had asked him to turn out his pockets but he didn’t want to do so until the police arrived, did he?
And when a police officer arrived he did turn out his pockets, didn’t he?
And one of the items produced was a Rotary watch, didn’t he?
And the officer took Mr Maguire’s personal details and then she left to go to the shop floor, wasn’t she?
She took the watch with her, didn’t she?
And she told Mr Maguire to remain in the office with you, didn’t she?
And later she returned and you were then able to resume duties on the Ground Floor, didn’t you?
The watch has been positively identified as the one taken from the counter that morning.
Anthony Maguire
On 15th November, You suddenly stopped him and said ‘stop right there.
And you grabbed his arm and he tried to pull away.
He thought he being mugged and just wanted to get away.
And then you said ‘you are not going anywhere. I am taking you back to the shop’.
He asked you what you are talking about
You said ‘you know exactly what you have done ,lets go back to the shop and wait for the police’
when you mentioned about the police and you are a store detective , not a mugger, and so he went with you to the store.
The shop was more crowded , indeed the whole of Oxford Street seemed even more crowded than usual.
The build up to the Christmas rush had started.
you then took him to a counter which displayed a lot of watches.
You had to wait a few minutes because the woman behind the counter was busy serving customers.
And there were no other sales assistants to help her.
you asked the woman ‘Is this him?’
She seemed to hesitate for a moment or two and then she said ‘yes, it looks like him’.
She had been looking at me and another man on the other side of the security guy before she decided to look at me.
The other guy was a customer who looked nothing like me, but she seemed really unsure of who to look at.
As soon as she said he was the man, he said to her, ‘you’ve just thought it could have been that guy’
He then said, ‘you can’t possibly have seen me here’, but she ignored him and the security guy asked him to accompany him to the shop offices.
He was taken to a small office and had to wait there for ages until the police arrived.
You had asked him to turn out his pockets but he didn’t want to do so until the police arrived.
When a police officer arrived he did turn out his pockets.
the contents included a watch he had bought earlier that day from a shop in Oxford Street called Select Gems.
The watch was going to be a Christmas present for Samantha.
He did not into Harbage’s that day and he was not the person who took the watch from that shop.
The description given by the shop assistant and store detective does fit him but then it would fit a lot of men of his age.
he was wearing blue jeans, a denim jacket and trainers but the T-shirt he was wearing was not all white.
It has a large logo on the front saying ‘silverstream’.
That’s the surf brand.
This logo was clearly visible because he didn’t have the jacket done up.
He can only assume that the shop manager at Select Gems has got confused about who bought the watch.
He did pay cash for it (the price was $225).
He had $25 on him when he was arrested and he has a receipt from a bank cash point which shows a withdrawal of $250 the day before.
He will bring this receipt to the trial in case it is useful.
He thought it was important to make her attend an ID Parade to test her identification of me.
He was unhappy that she did ID me, but it seems to me that the woman simply recognised him as the man the security guy brought in off Oxford Street.
I don’t really think it proves anything either way.